Whole Class: The Hate U Give Discussions

I feel like Khalil's decision on selling drugs is what he had grown up learning about, because that what the people around him did to survive. His mom was an addict herself and it was not until Khalil's death did she feel the need to get clean, because of the way they grew up they felt that drugs' either selling or doing them was the only way out. It was a common occurrence throughout the book for the people who lived in poverty to but the ones to commit crime, that can be said for real life as well. Crime and poverty have always gone together. Maverick Cater, Starr's father broke the cycle of poverty and crime in his family being the son of a legendary gang member he grew up in the gang, but when he learned about his son Seven he started to clean up his act and after his three years in prison he never went back to the gang life and started to clean up his act, later getting the store that he owned in the book. With that being said it is possible to get out of the cycle of poetry and crime but it is extremely hard.

Like Starr, my first thought on Khalil selling drugs is that he did not have to do it (170). My opinion here stems from the fact that I assume that other options exist and that they present effective alternatives to selling drugs. However, as Maverick notes, the people of Garden Heights live in a system that is designed against them (170). In this way, and based on what I've taken from the text, there were very few other options. This community faces a lot of underfunding, the schools are not adequately preparing the kids, and the jobs from corporate America either do not exist or not accessible for these people (170). Khalil worked at Maverick's store and yet still felt that he needed to sell drugs, as he often had to decide between lights and food (169). Moreover, Ms. Rosalie, his grandmother, notes that Khalil took responsibility for the bills around the house (65). Based on this, one can conclude that working at Maverick's store, though an honest job, was insufficient in meeting Khalil's needs and responsibilities. Furthermore, Thomas suggests throughout the book that for this community, it is not easy to live a comfortable life away from drugs. King had BMWs and other people were struggling to make ends meet. Readers can also see this when Maverick talks about his experiences after prison and when Starr recalls going out for supper with her father but that he did not eat. Devante also sheds some light on this issue and presents a compelling story to explain why he sold drugs. Specifically, he notes that the King Lords became like a family to him, supporting his family, making sure he ate, and had clothes to wear (238). The Kind Lords provided Devante with security and support that he was unable to find elsewhere. In particular, Devante says "it was just cool to have somebody take care of us for a change, instead of the other way around." (238). Both Devante and Khalil were trying to take care of themselves and others. For Devante, it was his mother and sisters, and for Khalil, it was his mother, brother, and grandmother. Poverty pushed both of these young men to the King Lords and into a life of selling drugs. That said, a spent life selling drugs should not be easier than following the law and getting a legal job, which is a systematic problem that desperately needs to be addressed. Do we really have the right to condemn people for breaking the law if we refuse to support them so that they can live a better life?
Khalil's mother was addicted to drugs, which made her an unreliable parent and source of income. She was unable to support her son or ill mother, instead, becoming another person to assist. In this way, Khalil was left to pick up some of this slack so that the bills could be paid. This individualistic, neo-liberal approach of trying to fix a problem within one's family without sufficient support from the state is not effective. In this way, I think that a possible solution would be state assistance to support these families so that these burdens do not fall onto the children. The cycles of crime and poverty appear to intersect, as to get out of poverty, these kids were becoming criminals. You should not have to trade one cycle for another. In this way, state intervention should come in the form of other legitimate and adequate options for these individuals so that these cycles can stop.

"It seems like they always talk about what he may have said, what he may have done, what he may not have done. I didn't know a dead person could be charged in his own murder, you know?"

I think this synthesizes Starr's main point: her frustration with the media's insistence to focus on whether Khalil was in a gang or dealt drugs, and whether this should be an admissible factor in his murder. The police begin to construct this narrative as early as their first questioning of Starr.

I think the inclusion that Khalil sold drugs to help his mother is a detail that should have been irrelevant to the case. It shouldn't have mattered to the public perception of him. The fact that the the police detectives and the interviewer were so consumed with this detail demonstrates the way that the public views victimization. There should not have to be this character virtue in order for people to sympathize with Khalil's murder.

Similarly, media outlets attached onto the idea that George Floyd was an alleged drug addict, that Breonna Taylor was an alleged drug dealer, that Jacob Blake was an alleged abuser, as if these would be some sort of mitigating factor in their murder. The idea that if you commit a crime, you are asking to be shot unarmed, is what I think Starr is trying to refute in her interview.

Anyway, I realize that I sort of hijacked this question, I just thought that this may be a point worth making.

I enjoyed analyzing this theme and would just like to add on - The solutions needed are solutions that come with action. Often times there is a lot of lip service payed to communities like Garden Heights but no action and actual service deliverance. I think in trying to combat such a cycle, it has to start with having the right leadership in place, one that will make sure there is more action than lip service. I do not think it is a complex problem to solve, however it is not one to be solved overnight either. I think there needs to be an adequate amount of resources allocated to such communities. At the end of the novel, Starr feels bad that her family has somewhat abandoned Garden Heights and has her feeling like they will not help the community. Maverick assures her on page 436 that they do not need to be staying in Garden Heights to make a difference, they just need to “give a damn”. I found this very powerful in that in order to assist these communities and in order to stop the cycle, we all need to “give a damn”.

Initially, when learning that Khalil was dealing drugs, my reaction was identical to that of Starr, “he didn’t have to sell drugs” (170). While that was my initial reaction, I quickly realized that I was not considering the many factors that may have influenced this—namely, the cycle of poverty and crime.

In a conversation with her father, Starr asks “why was he a drug dealer? Why are so many people in our neighborhood drug dealers?” to which Maverick explains the lack of opportunities in their community, and how it perpetuates the cycle of poverty and crime, where individuals feel they do not have any other options but to sell drugs in order to survive (169). It is easy to look at Khalil’s decision and see it as unjustifiable however, that would be to see the issue from a place of privilege. Khalil grew up watching his mother battle with addiction where she would “go clean a few weeks, decide she wants one more hit, then be back at it” (13). In short, witnessing addiction is all that Khalil ever knew and when he found out that his mother stole from King, he started selling drugs to pay back the debt (237). While Khalil did not want to sell drugs, he did so in order to protect his mother and support his family—therefore demonstrating how the cycle of poverty and crime is perpetuated, and how it is difficult to break.

 
Like Maverick explains, the Garden Heights community has a lack of opportunity. This allowed me to reflect on the fact that the first step in addressing the situation surrounding poverty and crime is to introduce programs in the community that look to address addiction and provide employment opportunities to help break the cycle. Instead of ignoring the issue and seeing it as a “choice” it is important to acknowledge the many factors that can lead to this decision, and for that reason, I do believe Khalil’s decision is justifiable.

Although I don't agree with selling drugs, I can clearly see it being what he thought was his only option. Khalil was caring for his Grandmother and his drug addict mom who owed money in a community where there are not many opportunities for him to make money. His mother was unable to work and his grandmother was laid off for being sick, it would be hard to see a way out of that situation when seemingly the only option to make fast and good money would be to deal drugs. He was wrapped up into the cycle of poverty as a kid with no money to go to school or eat so then school becomes not an option so you can make money, but then with no education, you can't get a job that makes enough money to get out of poverty. Selling drugs, gangs, prison seems like an easier alternative.

The cycle of poverty has a direct correlation to crime everywhere we look. The lack of opportunities, whether it's while they're searching for jobs, the school system, or the medical system, black people have to face it, is one of the factors that contribute to that poverty. It is shown in The Hate U Give. You can see that Starr had better opportunities than Khalil (she goes to a great school, she was clothed, fed, etc.). Her parents were able to give her and her siblings a better education in a school away from Garden Heights, she was fed and Khalil wasn't as fortunate as she was (Starr explains this when Hailey shows her the two pictures, Khalil ate so much pizza and cake at Starr's birthday because he was hungry and probably didn't know when his next meal would be p. 339). He was going to public school, where he was exposed to the drugs and gangs, he didn't have the opportunity to know better because his Mom fell into the cycle of drugs and crime before he even had a chance (maybe she was trying to forget how life wasn't fair, and she didn't have the same opportunity, there's multiple factors that lead to addiction). Khalil didn't really have a choice because he never was given one. He saw the medical bills that needed to be paid so his Grandma could get better with the treatment she needed and on top of that he was forced to pay his mother's depth to King, because she was so far down that she couldn't do it herself and probably would've ended up dead if he didn't do what he did. He is an example of how a child had to grow faster than he should have because he had to protect the people that should've protected him because the system didn't help them with the resources they needed when it was the time (healthcare, job opportunities, etc.). The second picture (p.339) that Hailey showed Starr showed Khalil with cash in his hands, Starr saw someone who was happy to not have to worry about money as much anymore. To me it seems like Khalil was trying to not end in the same spot as his mother, and he never agreed to join a gang which to me shows he really didn't want to commit to that life, he just wanted to see the light of day for once. The solutions would be to change the system, private schools help in a way when you have the money, but if the government's funding would be better for public schools, kids in public schools would most likely have a better education. Healthcare and equal job opportunities are needed.

Racism in job opportunities is also contributing to poverty because black people have less opportunities for jobs that could help them escape it, but DeVante shows this when he explains the poor working conditions at McDonalds in Garden Heights. Starr's mom worked at the clinic, which was most likely one of the best jobs in Garden Heights, but again she had to go to school to become a nurse, and if you don't finish high school or have bad experiences with school because your school isn't up to the standards they should be, you are less likely to go further your education. It seems to me that the school system is the main reason why a lot of people fall into poverty, which is why the solution would be to change and invest in it.

I think it is easy as someone who doesn't understand the circumstances to look in and judge Khalil for dealing drugs. If you are never that desperate, then obviously you wouldn't be able to begin to understand why Khalili did what he did. For what Khalili was facing, with wanting to protect his mom and help his grandmother, I can see where someone growing up in that neighbourhood would resort to selling. In Criminology, we learn about labeling theory. Once someone is labeled deviant, then they act as their label. This may not have been the exact case for Khalili, but growing up around gangs and in a bad area, it gave him ease access to dealing. It was clear from what DeVante tells Starr, that this was not the life Khalili wanted for himself, and he was only doing what he felt he had to. The cycle of crime and poverty is a difficult cycle to break, especially for kids like Khalili who feel that it is their only option. The novel shows that the poverty is one of the leading factors to the crime that occurs. Although Starr's father offered Khalili a job, it was still not enough to help his grandmother and his mom. In order to help end this cycle, I think there should be better education system put in place for these communities. A good education can help lead to success and a good Job. That way, these kids wouldn't have to resort to thing like dealing to ensure that they can keep the lights on. A safe community centre might also help kids to get out of the toxic and criminal streets. If these kids had someone to look out for them from a younger age, they might be Able to be guided to a safer life style for their futures.

Crime and poverty are a prominent theme in Angie Thomas’s The Hate U Give, more specifically in the Garden Heights community. It is more difficult to escape the cycle of crime and poverty passed down through generations than it is to repeat the cycle. When a community is impoverished and is not getting the opportunities, they need to escape poverty the easiest option is to turn to crime.
Being a King Lord in Garden Heights symbolizes power, respect, and wealth. The structure of Garden Heights is hierarchical, the King Lords and their families being at the top of the rank, following the Garden disciples then there is everyone else. The life of a King Lord is glamorized by society. This is evident on pages 203-204 when DeVante finds out Mavericks father is Big Don a notorious drug dealer from Garden Heights and responds as though he is a celebrity. Maverick was set to repeat the themes of crime and poverty passed down through generations in underdeveloped drug-filled communities like Garden Heights. Maverick became a King Lord when he was twelve and kinging brought more respect, money, luxury, and safety. (pg. 204) Maverick becoming a father was the thing that took him out of Kinging because he wanted to repeat the same cycle with his children that he endured, but it wasn’t easy he had to give up money, his connections and safety. (Pg 204) Even though Maverick has a strong connection to Garden Heights, him and Lisa took steps to not allow their children to become the bad things Garden Heights represents. They send the kids to Williamson to get quality education, make them work at the store to understand the importance of labor work, and punish them when they put themselves in situations of danger. We see this being repeated with DeVante, being involved with King and the Garden Disciples he was on a path to prison or death. (pg 205) Maverick and Carter stop the cycle DeVante was in by taking him in, giving him work at the store, and grounding him when he put himself in danger with King.
I think you have to understand these underlying factors before justifying Khalil’s decision to sell drugs. Yes, he did have a job at the store, but the minimum wage wasn’t adequate enough to support the necessities his family needed while paying for his grandmother’s medical bills. When the people you love are at risk, you aren’t necessarily thinking about what is morally right. He didn’t have a strong support system to guide him on the right path once his grandmother became sick. Most of those who were able to escape crime in Garden Heights still struggle due to little job opportunities, and on the other hand, those who commit to the life of crime have everything they need and more. I don’t think Khalil was thinking about the consequences of this lifestyle but yet the solutions it would bring. I don’t think it is okay that Khalil was selling drugs, however, given his situations and the circumstances he was under I understand how he felt justified.
I think it is really sad that it is easier to repeat the cycle of crime and poverty than it is to leave it and struggle. Once you enter, it is even harder to leave especially in underdeveloped areas that already don’t provide adequate numbers of jobs, quality educational, and government support. Sadly this is bigger than the novel and is represented in many real-life underdeveloped communities. We cannot know the solution to this without living it firsthand, but I think governments need to dedicate more attention to these communities and equip them with proper support such as mental, financial, and addiction counseling services as well as additional educational support. Why do we see art projects, entertainment centers, and corporate-based companies being funded in urbanized places before providing underdeveloped communities with the necessities needed for growth? This is more than an issue of 'lack of' funding.

(please note I have the ebook version of the text so it may not be the exact same pages as the physical copy, my apologies.) 

I think this mindset within inner-city communities is very prevalent among youths. In situations where there are not a lot of opportunities for young people, it is not out of the ordinary for them to turn to criminal activities. This occurs because the opportunity exists, there are gangs that recruit young boys and girls who have unstable home lives. They provide a sense of family and source of income for children who have adult sized responsibilities and on one to depend on like Khalil. Stuck with the responsibilities of his grandmother's medical bills and his mother's debt caused by her addiction, he chose the only option available to him. This is the cycle of poverty and crime. Youngster involved in criminal activities who are not murdered as Khalil was, end up going to jail repeatedly. A criminal record make college and job opportunities low and so individuals like Khalil go back to to criminal activities, it is the only thing they know and it is available. Poverty creates criminality and criminality creates poverty.
It is difficult for me to say that I condemn Khalil for his drug dealing. He was teenager on his own, I cannot imagine the struggles associated with such a situation, so I cannot judge him based on the choice he made.

Starr has the opportunity to attend an upscale high school but this certainly is not the case for most inner-city youths. The differences in available resources and opportunities provided among schools play a huge role continuation of this cycle. I would suggest providing quality resources to all schools regardless of the community they are in. It makes absolutely no sense to me, that countries like the United States are concerned about crime, but allow situations like the underfunding of inner-city schools to continue.

Khalil justifying dealing drugs with medical bills reminds me of the moral dilemma, it it okay to steal a loaf of bread to feed you family. The answer relies on the individual, however I think all can agree that an underlying issue of poverty is central to both.

While a solution could have been to seek out help from Starr’s father at the store, it was made clear that Khalil could not earn enough money solely working at the store. This also brings to light that Khalil could only manage to obtain a job through personal connections, rather than the normal route Williamson students can explore. I think this idea lends itself to the mindset Hailey has throughout the novel. Hailey is so quick to judge Khalil for his choices without factoring in the circumstances which led him there. Moreover, Hailey does not question the role of the police despite the fact that police are not justified or legally permitted to shoot Khalil even if he was guilty.

It seems to be clear that without experiencing poverty, it is hard to truly understand the struggles of every day life. This encompasses Hailey and other Williamson students privilege and ignorance as they do not understand poverty and therefore do not understand its fluidity with crime. Furthermore, students like Hailey cannot seem to grasp that they are equally culpable for the crime present in impoverished areas.

Khalil's feelings regarding selling drugs to provide for his family are valid despite how Star may feel about the topic. When living in areas like this resources when struggling aren't exactly easy to access or even available at all especially with such a high demand for help in areas of poverty. The trouble with generational poverty, crime and mental health issues is that it is aggressive and hard to escape. Knowing how to break a cycle seems a lot easier as an outsider looking in like in Star's case. The issue with Star not understanding is quite basic, Star was not the one who broke the generational curse, Marshall did, but even so, someone thats broken it can even have a skewed opinion because the reality is everyones situations are complex and differ from one another. The novel tells us of ordinary people being placed in extraordinary situations where they can only do what they know to make it better for themselves and like in Khalil's case, they turn to crime or drugs to solve the issue. If people were able to access resources like food banks, rehab, financial aid more easily it would definitely help but it doesn't stop there. Providing proper education to youth in these areas while offering aid resulting in a better home life can be a great way to boost the next generation so they don't need this aid as well. I believe stability is the key in these situations.

I have noticed from some of the commenting and from Starr, herself is that 1) drugs are bad and selling them is bad and 2) Khalil "could have something else", and 3) they realize that they cannot understand what Khalil is going through because they probably did not grow up with drugs in the house, and grew up having enough money to not resort to drug dealing. I cannot speak for the students making comments from their initial thoughts, but I can speak on behave of Starr, where there were no drugs around and money was not an issue.

Most students on here have had a change of heart since reading other comments, but it is important to realize that without discussions such as these, those initial thoughts could have remained the same.

As someone who did grow up near the poverty line and shared a room with her brother as a teenager because we could not afford a place for all 6 of my family members, I have seen first hand how easy it is to resort to vices. When you can't get a job, and when you can't afford rent, or gas, or food, or other bad habits that you use to cope such as smokes or alcohol, it can be very appealing to do jobs that are under the table. The media makes drug dealing sound luxurious - like if you deal enough weed or cocaine, you can be a millionaire. We even see this in the novel since King has many BMW's and no amount of money is spared to support his family. Once you start dealing drugs, it can be easy to fall into a pattern because 1) it is hard to find work when your resume for x amount of time is blank - showcasing that you just appear lazy, and 2) it can be easy to start doing the drugs you deal since the opportunity is a constant and it makes selling drugs easier since you can relate to the clients, and you can personally attest to the "product" that you are selling.

So, real life versus this novel is quite a contrast. It can be easy to discuss this within a safe group of educated individuals, but it just as important to remember that in real life, whenever someone is dealing drugs, we should not judge them too harshly. There is almost always a valid reason for their actions, which can be helped with programs, rather than judgement.

The novel highlights the cycle of poverty and crime by showing us how hard it is to escape, especially without means or motivation. The solution is clear - we need more programs that target the primary issue, not exactly the problem itself. The problem should not be targetted head-on but should be analyzed so we know how to prevent the problem from occurring. Ex. instead of criminalizing drugs, we should provide more affordable needs such as food and housing, and accessible affordable supports such as counselling, or mental health and rehab centers. People cannot stop their habits and addictions without 3 things: 1) support system of people such as family, doctors, counsellors, etc. 2) aid to their initial problem, which lead them to drugs in the first place (affordable housing, counselling, maybe encouragement for a new club, sport, group of friends, partner, etc. if a minor or student is into it from peer pressure, etc.) 3) A plan using taught tools to deter them every time they have withdrawals. All 3 things require aid from some sort of government program or programs.

Khalil’s justification of selling drugs is very simple in reality, A community such as Garden Heights where poverty and crime is rampant, it makes the most logical sense to partake in said crime to keep your family happy and safe to a degree. This is Khalil’s exact justification; it pays his mothers debt but also gives him a community that will protect hi and his mother if it is needed. However, it is not just this cycle of crime due to poverty we see in Khalil, but we see it in Maverick as well. Maverick joined the King Lords at twelve for protection from gang violence, gang violence that he was subjected to because his father was also part of a gang, and one of the biggest drug dealers in Garden heights. This protection and community is something that he appreciated, and this protection and community contributed to the community of Garden Heights as a whole. This protection is especially evident when a brick is thrown into and smashes the Carter Families window, and when the police cannot help, or potentially will not, help protect them, the King Lords take it upon themselves to do so. Even so, once joining a gang, it is especially difficult to leave, Maverick had to go to prison to even escape, thus becoming a felon and staining his reputation further within society, making it very difficult to support his family by getting a job. Therefore, with the inability to trust police to protect their community and abandoned by the rest of society, Garden Heights created its own system, however this system further traps Garden Heights in exactly what they want out of, a cycle of poverty and crime.

This directly reflects impoverished places within our own communities here in the West. People in these impoverished places have a lack of education, financial stability, etc. and thus turn to crime to provide for their family. If these places had the same resources available to them as any one of us do, they wouldn’t have to join gangs, sell drugs, or anything else for that matter to provide for themselves and their families with what they need to have a happy, healthy life. But it is more than likely easier said than done. With politicians ignoring these communities, a lack of a quality economy, police arresting and criminalizing residents, the poverty won’t end, and the crime will continue so that they can stay afloat.